並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep17-%E4%B8%80%E6%97%A5%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%97%E4%B9%8B%E5%82%B3%E8%AA%AA%E4%B8%AD%E8%87%AA%E7%87%9F%E4%BA%A4%E6%98%93%E5%93%A1%E7%9A%84%E4%B8%80%E5%A4%A9/id1553026725?i=1000518282681