並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep138-%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E4%B8%8A%E8%91%97%E5%90%8D%E7%9A%84-%E6%89%93%E8%80%B3%E5%85%89-%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6/id1533271443?i=1000555698206
