並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/138-%E5%AE%89%E5%B9%B3%E9%87%91%E5%B0%8F%E5%A7%90%E5%92%8C%E8%8D%B7%E8%98%AD%E9%80%83%E5%85%B5/id1506018589?i=1000546579922